For a while there, the independent ticket of ex-Democrats Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Nicole Shanahan seemed to be taking crucial votes away from Democrat Joe Biden, at least as indicated by comparing three-way and five-way (with Cornel West and Jill Stein) polls to head-to-head matchups of the incumbent and Donald Trump. Now, even as Biden has all but erased his polling deficit against Trump, he’s getting some more good news in surveys that include other candidates.
Two recent major national polls show Biden running better in a five-way than a two-way race. According to NBC News, Biden moves from two points down to two points up when the non-major-party candidates are included. In the latest Marist poll, Biden leads Trump by three points head-to-head and by five points in a five-way race. Since left-bent candidates West and Stein are pulling 5 percent in the former poll and 4 percent in the latter (presumably taking very few votes from Trump), you have to figure Kennedy is beginning to cut into the MAGA vote to an extent that should get Team Trump’s attention. And it has, NBC News reports:
“Former President Donald Trump has repeatedly said he’s confident that independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will pull more votes away from President Joe Biden than from him — a net win for the Republican’s candidacy.
“’He is Crooked Joe Biden’s Political Opponent, not mine,’Trump wrote on Truth Social late last month. ‘I love that he is running!’
“Behind closed doors, however, Trump is less sure. A Republican who was in the room with Trump this year as he reviewed polling said Trump was unsure how Kennedy would affect the race, asking the other people on hand whether or not Kennedy was actually good for his candidacy.”
Politico notes that Kennedy is drawing higher favorability numbers from Republican voters than from Democratic ones, which could indicate a higher ceiling for RFJ Jr. among Trump defectors. And it’s generally assumed from his past performances that there is a lower ceiling on Trump’s support than on Biden’s; he needs to be able to win with significantly less than a majority of the popular vote, as one Republican told Politico:
“’If the Trump campaign doesn’t see this as a concern, then they’re delusional,’ Republican consultant Alice Stewart said. ‘They should be looking at this from the standpoint that they can’t afford to lose any voters — and certainly not to a third-party candidate that shares some of [Trump’s] policy ideas.’”
One likely reason that Kennedy could be appealing to Republicans is the residual effect from the positive attention he received from conservative media when he was running against Biden in the Democratic primaries; his identification with anti-vaccine conspiracy theories also resonates more positively on the right side of the political spectrum than the left. So it’s in the interest of Team Trump to begin telling the former president’s sympathizers that RFK Jr. is actually a lefty, and that started happening recently, as the New York Times reported: “Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, pointed in particular to Mr. Kennedy’s views on climate change and the environment, writing on his social media site that Mr. Kennedy was more ‘radical Left’ than Mr. Biden.”
The idea, of course, is not only to discourage potential Trump voters from drifting toward the independent candidate, but to encourage potential Biden voters to consider a Kennedy vote.
If Kennedy continues to draw votes from both Biden and Trump, each of their campaigns will need to make a strategic decision about how to deal with him: Do you ignore him and count on the usual fade in support afflicting non-major-party presidential candidates as Election Day nears, or do you attack him as too far left (if you’re Trump) or too far right (if you’re Biden) and try to make him a handicap to your major-party opponent? The more aggressive approach has become common among Democrats seeking to intervene in Republican primaries (or in the recent case of the California Senate race, a nonpartisan top-two primary) by loudly attacking candidates they’d prefer to face in the general election, encouraging Republicans to flock to the supposed menace to progressivism. This kind of tactic — if deployed with some serious dollars — could have an effect on Kennedy’s base of support.
Certainly Trump seems to be considering it. With his usual practice of saying the quiet part out loud, Trump opined: “If I were a Democrat, I’d vote for RFK Jr. every single time over Biden, because he’s frankly more in line with Democrats.”
Trying to minimize losses to Kennedy and maximize opposite-party votes for Kennedy could become a routine practice down the stretch. Where and by whom this strategy is pursued will depend in part on where RFK Jr. is ultimately on the ballot. Right now he has nailed down ballot access in just two states, Utah and Michigan. CBS News reports the Kennedy-Shanahan ticket is close to securing a spot on the November ballot in a number of other states:
“Kennedy’s campaign says it has completed signature gathering in seven other states in addition to Utah and Michigan — Nevada, Idaho, Hawaii, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Nebraska and Iowa.
“The super PAC supporting Kennedy, American Values 2024, says it has collected enough signatures in Arizona, Georgia and South Carolina.”
Coping with Kennedy could become a game of three-dimensional chess between the Biden and Trump campaigns. But if it begins to look like RFK Jr. has become an existential threat to Democrats or to Republicans, you can bet they’ll go medieval on him without even a moment’s hesitation.
Kerry is going to be in my neck of the woods campaigning over the next couple of days. He begins at noon today in Cloquet Mn, and then takes his bus caravan on to Duluth, Superior Wisconsin, and then south through Western Wisconsin to Iowa, and on Monday he will campaign in Iowa.
What ties these rural areas together. First If you want a name for the tour, and an emotional location, call it the Evict Whistleass Tour — because the lovely lady who put into her obit that her memorials should go toward unseeting “Whistleass” lived along this route. More specifically — this is five congressional districts that since 1980 have shown a decided interest in third party candidates — the Minnesota 8th did well for Anderson in 1980 — turned out a huge vote for Peroit in 92, was almost 20 points for Nader in 2000 and was strong for Jesse Ventura in 1998. Normally it is solidly DFL — Jim Oberstar wins it by 85 points. It is the combination of the lass of the Iron Mining industry and the demise of middle sized dairy and meat products farming operations that screw this part of the world — China just bought the Taconite mines, and the Republicans are promoting the shores of Lake Superior as a grand place to build coal fired generators — with the coal coming from Wyoming and the polution drefting over the great lakes.
Just yesterday Wisconsin heard that the largest farmer owned cheese co-op is going belly up. Apparently it cannot market the classic product. This is yet one more set-back for the middle sized family owned dairy operation.
Do these parts concern themselves with Iraq — sure do, they have a very high rate of losses compared to other parts of the country — their national guard has had multiple call-ups, many seriously wounded, and a very high death rate. Bush wants to close down one regional VA medical center.
The Wisconsin counties were, in 1968 very friendaly to Eugene McCarthy’s campaign pegged as anti-war. (and less interested in Humphrey and Bob Kennedy). It is a strain of old time isolationism that runs through this area — but the area knows full well its Ag industry is dependent on international trade. The only businesses really doing well these days are the Indian Cansinos, as this bus trip will take Kerry through the Chippawa, Winnebago and Sioux nations.
I suggest all these details because it is the local campaigning in places where there are persuadable voters where Kerry wins this campaign — and the details of NE Minnesota, Western Wisconsin, and NE Iowa are what’s in store for the weekend.
In a significant part of this route, Kerry will be going past cafe’s that feature very large pictures of another JFK who campaigned the route in 1960, quite successfully. It is very much where he should be campaigning, and spending his time with the local party leaders — local press and local culture.
Bush’s 2003 tax cuts on capital worked to help the economy, while his 2001 tax cuts did not work. I could see Kerry raising rates on higher incomes, especially if he included tax simplification for those people. The US economy did pretty well in the 60s and 70s with high income tax rates on millionaires.
But the tax cuts on capital have worked to bring the stock market up and so bring investment into the economy. Investment is good not just for the investors, but also for the people with jobs, who get more productive from investment, and so make more money.
Kerry’s repeal of many investment tax cuts, except for complicated exemptions for small business, will hurt the workers who benefitted from the 2003 cuts.
Bush doesn’t know from his tax cuts. He thinks he’s putting money in people’s pockets, or giving the money back to people who earned it etc. He is very vulnerable here.
In my opinion Kerry is being misled by his Rubin-type advisors, who are stupid enough to believe that you just raise taxes and the economy gets better. It makes me literally ill to think of Bush getting re-elected and running over the Ds like he did in 2002. I don’t want to leave this kind of world for my children so I pray that Kerry will change his tax plan.
What is this about the “drawn-out” VP selection making him look like a flip-flopper? Could we have a few MORE RNC talking points?
This is about the same time that Gore picked Loserman, and Bush picked Cheney. Nothing is being dragged out.
The main reason Bush is going back up is because the public has browbeaten the public into thinking the economy is wonderful. This is an endless cycle because even though many are still suffering, they will believe that they are the exception, and everything will get better, because hey, that’s what the news says. We will also start to see social wedge issues playing more of a factor.
I think this election will be decided based on GOTV. If Democrats can do better on this than they did in the horrific 2002 midterms, they may have a shot.
Lawrence, you raise some good points. However, while there were a few middle class familes that met the specific criteria for significant tax relief, most received minor breaks at best. I thought it was a good move by Bush, but not so clever as to be considered an “outflanking” in my mind(polling data that I’ve seen seems to suggest that most share the view that Bush is shifting tax burdens, not cutting them). Given that this, real wages, and inflation are somewhat complicated to convey(compares to the GOP mantra “tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts!”, I’m surprised at how few people are buying the Bush plan, at least this far.
>>On Iraq, you can see this outflanking strategy at work, since he has quietly been doing many of the things Democrats have been suggesting for the past year, like going to NATO for help.
>>
Again, given the data that suggests people are unhappy with Bush’s management of the occupation, I don’t think that the outflanking is working. People seem to realize that his moves are more of a realization that he planned poorly for the after-war. Frankly, I’m surprised that so many people seem to be seeing through the spin at this point.
I think that they are starting to realize that there are only so many times you can try to re-define your policy to look like your opponents’ before people start to question your ability to develop cogent policies on your own. Of course, that could just be wild conjecture on my part…..
Sadly, to reiterate the salient point, second-term defeats rely on two things: 1) significant disatisfaction with the incumbent, and 2) a satisfactory level of confidence in the vision and personality of the challenger. While the first point definitely obtains, the Rove propaganda machine and some gaffes by Kerry himself may keep the second point from enabling the Democrats to retake the White House, in my opinion.
I agree that Kerry’s tax position is a good one: get rid of the tax breaks for families (individuals?) making more that 200k/yr, and open up some tax breaks for small businesses.
But the whole tax debate over the past two is a good example of where the Bush campaign shows its strategic and tactical strengths: about two and a half years ago, after 20+ years of repubs talking about tax breaks and then delivering most of them to rather wealthy people and very large businesses, Kerry came out and said: “I’ll show you what a Democratic tax cut looks like”. Bush’s next round of tax cuts, proposed soon after that remark, had the first significant tax cuts for the middle class in 25 years. Outflanked!
But Bush is still vulnerable on even this last round, since for some unfathomable reason, he highlighted the cuts on taxes from dividends, which he was unable to spin like even the “death taxes”.
On Iraq, you can see this outflanking strategy at work, since he has quietly been doing many of the things Democrats have been suggesting for the past year, like going to NATO for help.
Yet, we don’t really know how well Kerry is doing, since historically, as has been noted, successful challengers have NOT done well in the spring. But the period when we will be able to reliably measure whether Kerry is cutting the mustard is coming up soon…
The MOST reliable poll predictor is this: If any candidate does not have a convincing lead in the week or two after their convention, then they’re toast for sure.
Just remember — the kinds of things being said about Kerry now are pretty much exactly what folks said about him last November vis-a-vis the primaries — two months before he nailed Iowa AND New Hampshire.
I expect he is using the time to raise money, refine his message, and get his ducks in a row for a strong finish — in October.
At the moment there is too much opportunity for Bush to co-opt any of his initiatives, and build their counter-strategy. It’s much to early for him to put his cards on the table. Leave that to the Bush campaign.
wellbasically offers:
“Kerry to me beats Bush because Bush will blow up the world, and then it doesn’t matter how well the economy is doing. But I still think Kerry’s tax plans are inferior and will cost him the election unless he changes them.”
Please do tell how Kerry’s tax plan is inferior to a woefully irresponsible supply-side policy that shifts taxes regressively, shifts them from all income to wages and salaries, is intended to reward the top 1% with the vast majority of the breaks, generates the lowest corporate tax revenues in 100 years, and builds in very dangerous long-term structural deficits that threaten to undermine both our long-term economic growth and popular social programs.
Kerry’s plan will raise taxes on the top marginal rate and deliver more breaks to the working and middle classes. This provides not only greater demand-side stimulus to the economy, but it has the added effect of helping to balance the budget.
That having been said, I am indeed open and curious as to what basis you have for making your comment on Kerry. Perhaps there is something I am missing.
S. Robinson- I don’t care what Matt Drudge says. He is a sleazebag and liar and would no more visit his web site than kill myself.
Alan Snipes,
Drudge has the latest rumor about Kerry’s VP choice:
http://www.drudgereport.com/kerryhrc.htm
I used to worry about Kerry’s poll numbers until I realized it’s early and there are a lot of people still not paying attention.
Bush is the one who should be worried because he is known by eveyone and his approval numbers are in the low to mid 40’s.
Assuming Kerry will get good vibes from his V.P. pick (hopefully its Edwards) and a reasonable bounce from the convention, to me he is in good shape.
The best thing Kerry can do right now is keep his head down. Everytime he pops up and opens his mouth, his numbers go down. He is the only candidate I’ve seen who does better, the less you see of him.
What could Kerry have done in the last month or so that would be considered “strong”?
Bush and Kerry are on a race to the bottom. Bush is flailing on Iraq, but an economy is revving up just enough to give him a breath of life.
But Kerry essentially hasn’t done anything strong since he clinched the nomination. He’s just out-numbered there, kerry alone facing a whole administration. And unfortunately, the drawn out VP process just fits right into the can’t make up his mind, flip-flopper image.
So yes, it’s Bush’s election to lose, but Kerry could blow bigger than the President.
Bush and Kerry are on a race to the bottom. Bush is flailing on Iraq, but an economy is revving up just enough to give him a breath of life.
But Kerry essentially hasn’t done anything strong since he clinched the nomination. He’s just out-numbered there, kerry alone facing a whole administration. And unfortunately, the drawn out VP process just fits right into the can’t make up his mind, flip-flopper image.
So yes, it’s Bush’s election to lose, but Kerry could blow bigger than the President.
Kerry should be spending his time tailoring his message for the US electorate. He is undefined because his economic ideas poll worse than Bush and will cause him to lose the election. So he isn’t saying what he’s going to do on TV.
Bush can go on TV and present Kerry’s tax increases in the worst possible light. Kerry comes back and presents them in the best light, but they factually cannot compete with Bush’s tax plan.
Kerry to me beats Bush because Bush will blow up the world, and then it doesn’t matter how well the economy is doing. But I still think Kerry’s tax plans are inferior and will cost him the election unless he changes them.
Got to agree with mimiru on one thing. If the last year has taught us anything, it’s that poll numbers can swing pretty wildly in a few months.
And there are some unknowns out there that could shake things up profoundly — capture of Osama, trial of Saddam, attack in the US. Things are still very, very unsettled.
On the other hand, it’s not clear whether Kerry can do much about it until the convention.
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This is just as important as electing JK!
The real question is, are these the first stirrings of an upward trend for Bush, which mean Kerry needs to get off his ass and start “closing” in July instead of when, August? Septermber? Is it a small and/or temporary bump.