A new poll, conducted September 1-5 by International Communications Research, has a 48-47 lead for Kerry among RVs, consistent with the recently-released Gallup poll and further calling into question the results of the Time and Newsweek polls.
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Editor’s Corner
By Ed Kilgore
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November 29: Biden, Trump and Young Voters
I decided to add my analytical two cents at New York to the political topic many Democrats are worried about right now: the direction of the youth vote.
Until recently, Democrats’ biggest concern about the 2024 youth vote was that millennial and Gen-Z voters were so disappointed with our octogenarian president that they might not turn out in great enough numbers to reelect Joe Biden. Young voters were, after all, the largest and most rapidly growing segment of the Democratic base in the last election. But now public-opinion surveys are beginning to unveil a far more terrifying possibility: Donald Trump could carry the youth vote next year. And even if that threat is exaggerated or reversible, it’s increasingly clear that “the kids” may be swing voters, not unenthusiastic Democratic base voters who can be frightened into turning out by the prospect of Trump’s return.
NBC News reports it’s a polling trend that cannot be ignored or dismissed:
“The latest national NBC News poll finds President Joe Biden trailing former President Donald Trump among young voters ages 18 to 34 — with Trump getting support from 46% of these young voters and Biden getting 42%. …
“CNN’s recent national poll had Trump ahead of Biden by 1 point among voters ages 18 to 34.
“Quinnipiac University had Biden ahead by 9 points in that subgroup.
“The national Fox News poll had Biden up 7 points among that age group.
“And the recent New York Times/Siena College battleground state polling had Biden ahead by just 1 point among voters ages 18 to 34.”
According to Pew’s validated voters analysis (which is a lot more precise than exit polls), Biden won under-30 voters by a 59 percent to 35 percent margin in 2020. Biden actually won the next age cohort, voters 30 to 49 years old, by a 55 percent to 43 percent margin. In 2016, Pew reports, Hillary Clinton won under-30 voters by a 58 percent to 28 percent margin, and voters 30 to 44 by 51 percent to 40 percent.
So one baby-boomer Democrat and one silent-generation Democrat kicked Trump’s butt among younger voters, despite the fact that both of them had their butts kicked among younger primary voters by Bernie Sanders. It’s these sort of numbers that led to a lot of optimistic talk about younger-generation voters finally building the durable Democratic majority that had eluded the party for so many years.
What’s gone wrong?
For one thing, it’s important to note that yesterday’s younger voters aren’t today’s, as Nate Silver reminds us:
“Fully a third of voters in the age 18-29 bracket in the 2020 election (everyone aged 26 or older) will have aged out of it by 2024, as will two-thirds of the age 18-to-29 voters from the 2016 election and all of them from 2012. So if you’re inclined to think something like “gee, did all those young voters who backed the Obama-Biden ticket in 2012 really turn on Biden now?”, stop doing that. Those voters are now in the 30-to-41 age bracket instead.”
But even within relatively recent groups of young voters, there are plenty of micro- and macro-level explanations available for changing allegiances. Young voters share the national unhappiness with the performance of the economy; many are particularly afflicted by high basic-living costs and higher interest rates that make buying a home or even a car unusually difficult. Some of them are angry at Biden for his inability (mostly thanks to the U.S. Supreme Court) to cancel student-loan debts. And most notoriously, young voters are least likely to share Biden’s strong identification with Israel in its ongoing war with Hamas (a new NBC poll shows 70 percent of 18-to-34-year-old voters disapprove of Biden’s handling of the war).
More generally, intergenerational trust issues are inevitably reflected in perceptions of the president who is turning 81 this week, as youth-vote expert John Della Volpe recently explained:
“Today many young people see wars, problems and mistakes originating from the older generations in top positions of power and trickling down to harm those most vulnerable and least equipped to protect themselves. This is the fabric that connects so many young people today, regardless of ideology. This new generation of empowered voters is therefore asking across a host of issues: If not now, then when is the time for a new approach?”
All of these factors help explain why younger voters have soured on Uncle Joe and might be open to independent or minor-party candidates (e.g., Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Cornel West, Jill Stein, or a possible No Labels candidate). But they don’t cast as much light on why these same voters might ultimately cast a ballot for Donald Trump.
Trump is less than four years younger than Biden and is about as un-hip an oldster as one can imagine. He’s responsible for the destruction of federal abortion rights, a deeply unpopular development among youth voters (post-election surveys in 2022 showed abortion was the No. 1 issue among under-30 voters; 72 percent of them favored keeping abortion legal in all or most cases). His reputation for racism, sexism, and xenophobia ought to make him anathema to voters for whom the slogan “Make America Great Again” doesn’t have much personal resonance. And indeed, young voters have some serious issues with the 45th president, even beyond the subject of abortion. In the recent New York Times–Siena battleground state poll that showed Trump and Biden about even among under-30 voters, fully 64 percent of these same voters opposed “making it harder for migrants at the southern border to seek asylum in the United States,” a signature Trump position if ever there was one.
At the same time, under-30 voters in the Times-Siena survey said they trusted Trump more on the Israel-Hamas conflict than Biden by a robust 49 percent to 39 percent margin. The 45th president, needless to say, has never shown any sympathy for the Palestinian plight. And despite the ups and downs in his personal relationship to Bibi Netanyahu, he was as close an ally to Israel’s Likud Party as you could imagine (among other things, Trump reversed a long-standing U.S. position treating Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank as a violation of international law and also moved the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a gesture of great contempt toward Palestinian statehood). His major policy response to the present war has been to propose a revival of the Muslim travel ban the courts prevented him from implementing during his first term.
But perceptions often differ sharply from reality. Sixty-two percent of 18-to-29-year-old and 61 percent of 40-to-44-year-old voters said they trusted Trump more than Biden on the economy in the Times-Siena survey. It’s unclear whether these voters have the sort of hazy positive memories of the economy under Trump that older cohorts seem to be experiencing or if they instead simply find the status quo intolerable.
In any event, the estrangement of young voters provides the most urgent evidence of all that Team Biden and its party need to remind voters aggressively about Trump’s full-spectrum unfitness for another term in the White House. Aside from his deeply reactionary position on abortion and other cultural issues, and his savage attitude toward immigrants, Trump’s economic-policy history shows him prioritizing tax cuts for higher earners and exhibiting hostility to student-loan-debt relief (which he has called “very unfair to the millions and millions of people who paid their debt through hard work and diligence”). Smoking out the 45th president on what “Trumponomics” might mean for young and nonwhite Americans should become at least as central to the Biden reelection strategy as improving the reputation of “Bidenomics.” And without question, Democrats who may be divided on the Israel-Hamas war should stop fighting each other long enough to make it clear that Republicans (including Trump) would lead cheers for the permanent Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank while agitating for war with Iran.
There’s no world in which Donald Trump should be the preferred presidential candidate of young voters. But it will require serious work by Team Biden not only to turn these voters against the embodiment of their worst nightmares but to get them involved in the effort to keep him away from power.
send some meat… give us some evidence… please.
Thanks
Would it be enough if he just threatened you with a horrible death?
It seems to be the extent of the GOP platform these days.
That and pleas for a Mulligan.
‘We’ll actually, like, do stuff and things if we get another term.’
former Democrat… dont just lay on rhetoric… add some concrete evidence to your chat. You are sounding so much like bush… give us something to chew on… send some meat… give us some evidence… please.
Thanks
former demorcrat said
” We need a united country that has strong leadership”
I agree! Ask King George why he is such a devider? Why does almost every country in the world want John Kerry to win? We will never have a united country that has strong leadership until we get rid of the cowboy.
“former democrat”:
“…supplied by the very people Kerry would turn to…” etc, etc, etc…
You seem to have missed the part where the Reagan and Bush I administrations very publicly supported and armed BOTH Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. Remember the picture of Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam’s hand? Remember when Osama was a “freedom fighter” because he was fighting the soviet occupation of Afganistan?
Nice friends you “republicans” have…
P.S. Cheney voted against more weapons systems than Kerry did, but somehow THAT fact is never posted on Faux News.
Don’t you realize that you are dealing here with people who read ALL news sources (not just the ones they agree with) and are capable of doing research for themselves?
Come better prepared next time.
BTW, I’m a real live, card-carrying yellow dog Democrat who can trace his dues back to McGovern. If you’re really a Democrat, you could never become a Republican.
Being a Democrat is a state of mind best captured by Will Rogers.
If you’re not a white person in the upper half of society financially, or not a fundamentalist Christian, you have no place with Republicans. I am, but I’m a race/class/religion traitor.
Democrats – give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
God almighty, those words still give me a chill, and may they until the day I die.
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To lying Puke who claims to be a former Democrat:
————
You like me!
You REALLY like me!
BTW, Sally Fields is one of us, loser.
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You’re scared, that’s why you’re here. If you really had balls bigger than acorns, you wouldn’t be here fronting. You’d be fighting in Iraq, or at least serving meals to soldiers for $90K a year through Halliburton.
Chickenhawk.
Go Cheney yourself.
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you guys would be funny if it were not so serious.You run around screaming into the night to boost your courage while you put your hopes and trust into a man that is no better than Jane Fonda at her worst. The weapons our enemies use against us were supplied by the very people Kerry would turn to for his “coalition”. The intellegence agencies that were supposed to protect our country were stripped of their resources by Kerry and his former democratic president while they voted to stop the very weapons that we depend on for our protection now. It is easy to set back and
be critical of a man who would sacrifice his personal desires to protect our country. If you think the president wanted this war any more than you or I , you have never tried to know the man.
I shudder to think what Al Gore or John Kerry would have done. Bush inherited a recession brought on by a false economy spurred by the phoney companies of the dot com. This was not Clinton’s or Bush’s doing but he inherited it. We have fought through the recession and are fighting through the terroist threat that has been building for over twenty years. We need a united country that has strong leadership but I fear the democrats don’t want a unified country, they want a Victory so they can advance their liberal agendas regardless of the future. Who is living in a”bubble”?
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In the past four presidential elections, Gallup has missed the number between the Dem and the Repub an average of almost 4 million voters. They might as well be throwing darts.
They haven’t gotten closer than 2 million in 20 years.
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They’re getting paid, but not for being good.
I am watching CNN , Lou Dobbs and MSNBC Chris Mathews. They are saying they don’t care about what happened 35 years ago. Why didn’t they say this 3 weeks ago when they were spending days and days pounding up on Kerry? They didn’t get tired of it then……….
Notice former Demorcrat’s e-mail, one of those right wing fanatic evangels who don’t give a shit about anything because Jesus is going to come and take them all away.
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Now is the time for Kerry to challenge Bush directly.
Bush is trying to squirm out of the town hall debate where undecideds would ask questions. In addition to finally putting Bush where he might have to answer real questions of real Americans, it puts Bush beside Kerry, who is 6 inches taller.
Time for Kery to issue THE CHALLENGE which I call:
MEET ME IN MISSOURI
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“President Bush,
Are you afraid to face Americans who don’t sign loyalty oaths to you?
Instead running all over the country giving your same stump speech to people who signed loyalty oaths to you, why don’t you come debate me in Missouri, before those town hall people?
Are you afraid to let America see us STAND face to face?
Will you STAND up this time, or will you disappear again?
Stand up and MEET ME IN MISSOURI, Mister President, or I will be there by myself on that day, debating your empty chair to the same audience.”
The buck stops in Missouri, Mister President.
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Feel free to spread it throughout blog land and Dem circles. Yes, osmosis works. No attribution necessary. Steal it, call it your own, but use it.
“promote their agenda for abortions, gay marriages, pornography, drugs, or any other form of behavior that destroys the very fabric of our society”
The republicans can’t beat us on our actual issues (education, environment, health care, tax fairness), so they lie, lie, lie about who we are.
“Former Democrat”: we are not the people who you are describing. You are a victim of propaganda. Try not to swallow all the lies you are fed, and get out and check things out for yourself. Also, try reading american history.
(Beep! Beep! Beep! Propaganda Victim Alert!)
WHAT KERRY SHOULD DO…
pull a Bush.
Kerry should come out and have this huge press conference.
In this press conference he should (in a forceful way) explain the following facts:
1) The election campaign for President is now tied.’
2) President Bush and himself have about the same amount of money in the bank.
3) President Bush and himself are polar opposites on practically every issue. He should explain the differences.
Then he should explain that this is the most important election of our lifetime. It is important, because the decisions made will affect the country for the next generation.
Will we have war or peace?
Will our children inherit the strongest economy in the world or will our children inherit massive debt?
Will we put the interests of the few ahead the interests of the many?
He should bring up Cheney’s latest attack. He should define it for what it is: an act of total desperation by an administration who believed that they could ride the worst terrorist event in US history to another four years in power. They believed that the American people would not care about the fact that one million jobs have been lost; or that millions of families have lost their health benefits; or that this administration has turned a record $250 billion surplus into a record $500 billion deficit. This administration believes that fear motivates this election. They believe that the people are too stupid to know the difference.
These are the decisions the American people have to make in this election. This election will not be decided by money. This election will not be decided by smears. This election will not be decided by pundits and talking heads.
It will be decided by the people. And it is in the people I trust.
Kerry should then say, “this is too important an election to leave up to the “experts” in Washington who have developed a knack for looking out for themselves. This is an election about the people. And to the people of America…I will not lose your election.”
Dudes, this would get such a reaction. Coming on top of the growing perception of a “limited Bush bounce.” Official Washington would talk about nothing else.
Kerry can then go on the offense regarding the economy, etc.
I don’t know about you guys, but i’m getting my second wind.
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I don’t understand why you would call the poll a tie.
Posted by reignman at September 8, 2004 07:23 PM
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Here’s why:
These polls are usually around 1000 people.
482 for Bush
473 for Kerry
41 for undecided
The poll is not and cannot be accurate. The only poll that is theoretically accurate is the election. Everything else is merely AN EDUCATED GUESS.
That is all polls are: EDUCATED GUESSES.
Problem is, as Ruy has shown, is that some of the guesses aren’t very educated these days. They have bad methodology, too short a time frame, too limited a means of data recovery, and/or inherent bias.
The next 1000 numbers called could easily have shown Kerry up by 9. It is not a statistically significant difference, hence, it’s a tie.
Um…a 3.5 margin of error w/ Bush a point ahead suggests that Bush has a small lead of Kerry, because the probability of that being so is larger than the probability of Kerry being in the lead. I guess it’s a virtual tie, but I don’t understand why you would call the poll a tie.
Can you smell it friends?
The smell of Democratic victory in November.
I mean, after a $50 million advertising blitz by Bush in August. To Kerry’s blackout.
After a smear by swift boat liars.
After an overtly negative party convention.
If they lead us at all, it’s by one or two percent.
In reality, I think they are behind or we are tied.
Now the Democrats have their gloves off.
Now Bush’s AWOL story is coming to light.
Now Kitty Kelly’s, Bob Graham’s book is coming out.
What does this all mean?
Bye-bye Bush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love the smell of smoldering right wing shills in the morning. Smells like….VICTORY!
I wonder if there is some way to translate Jeff’s 50-46 into a likely electoral number.
Former Democrat..
Based on your definition of repubs, how do they differ from the democrats? You seem to be implying that only repubs have these values but you need to know that this is absolutely untrue. You have spent too much time in the repub bubble and have gone thru a sad conversion.
I do not know any democrats who are not hard working, who do not pay taxes, who are not christian minded, who do not believe in the tenets on which the country was founded.. and if there are any dems who do not share in the values above, I am sure there are just as many repubs who do not share these values either.
It would do you plenty good to burst the GOP bubble and start to review the issues from all sides.
As much as you seem to imply the righteousness of the repubs, you must also know that truth and credibility are scarce commodities in the GOP camp also. Have a look.
Former Democrat?
Or current Bush shill?
Another one of the online goobers who thinks posting spam that someone else wrote. That story has been around the world a few times. All the Bushies who don’t watch Fox or listen to Rush all day, send emails with crap like that on it.
“former democrat”: I suggest that you take yourself and your Zell Miller-approved RNC talking points over to the Free Republic blog, where you and they clearly belong. We’re really not interested in that kind of garbage here.
Should clarify: An LV screen could presumably ask “Did you vote in the last election AND are you likely to vote this time. However, if the constraint is to reduce the sample size to match % voter turnout the first to be tossed out will be people who answered NO/NO or NO/YES.
I figured they were skidding when Cheney
came out with shrill scare tactics
And O’Reilly re-introduced Swiftboat Satan
O’Neill last night.
I just did my own analysis of the Gallup poll.
Using their own internals:
With each candidate receiving 90% support among their base (7% voting for the other candidate).
Also, with Kerry actually ahead of Bush among independants: 49% to 46%.
Here is how it ACTUALLY breaks down, if one assumes that the same number of people vote in 2004, which voted in 2000 (how about that for a LIKELY VOTER).
In 2000, of all those who voted – 39% were Dems; 35% were Republicans; 26% were independants.
Therefore using these numbers and the numbers supplied in the Gallup poll internals:
Kerry 50.3%
Bush 46. 2%
Is it me, or do you think someone is messing with these numbers?
LV screens will always bias in favor of republicans as they are usually more motivated than dems. Fortunately for dems they are outnumbered. If voter turnout is unusually high (and there’s no way the LV number can predict that since they are based on historic data) then the polls will be significantly off – which I agree is good, it keeps democrats more motivated. A landslide will be so sweet.
My choice for K/E slogan: THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO FEAR IS BUSH/CHENEY!
New Kerry motto:
GIVE ‘EM HELL KERRY!
It is hard to measure motivation of the voters. I think the closeness of the last election, and the polarized electorate will work both sides into a frenzy to get out the vote. We will see a reversal of the trend of lower voter turnout this year.
Frankly, I am glad to see Bush pull ahead in the polls. This is not going to be easy, so we have to work harder if we want the best results. The previously unthinkable massive turnout could change the political landscape as dramatically as in years past when Presidential Candidates had coatails.
Does anyone doubt that Bush deserves to have the rug pulled out from under his feet more than any President in history? Not just a loss, but a BIG loss. Why not hope for that? After all, they have earned it.
Time for a good post explaining LV models. You’ve said in the past that they become much more accurate as the election approaches. It seems likely that news stories will increasingly favor LV results.
Yet it seems possible to me that they may be biased republican right up to the election. People’s statements about what they will do are always less reliable than measuring their actual actions. Thus, I would imagine that an important predictor of LV’s is whether they voted in the last presidential election. But the last election was a time of demoralization for dems, and this ought to be one for repubs (I know, we’ll see). But if prior voting figures strongly in LV screens, then I think their predictions could easily be off this time around… Right up to election day.
What’s your take on LV models? What do they typically incorporate? Why do you say they get better closer to the election? Are they based entirely on respondent predictions or on prior behavior?
Tx
Charlie
Do not despair…the Swift Boat has turned to the attack and not a minute too soon either
Every silver cloud has a dark intrnals lining…
ICR
The Race for Independents
The ICR press release of August 14th reported a substantive lead for John Kerry among registered Independents. This was in sharp contrast to August, 2000, when the last Democratic nominee for President, Al Gore, trailed in this important population by nearly 10 points.
However, since that time there has been a sharp erosion of preference for Kerry amongst this critical population. In fact, within this population Bush now holds a significant lead (47.7% to 36.9% with a 8% margin of error), in sharp contrast to one month ago:
Edwards Calls Cheney Remark Dishonorable and un-American
CLARKSBURG, W.Va. – Democrat John Edwards urged President Bush on Wednesday to renounce Vice President Dick Cheney’s statement that the United States risks another terrorist attack if voters make the wrong election choice, calling the warning dishonorable and un-American.
“This statement by the vice president of the United States was intended to divide us,” Edwards said. “It was calculated to divide us on an issue of safety and security for the American people. It’s wrong and it’s un-American.”
Edwards made his comments to supporters while campaigning in West Virginia, a day after Cheney said at a town hall meeting in Iowa, “It’s absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we’ll get hit again and we’ll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States.”
Bush declined to comment on Cheney’s statement when asked about it Wednesday at the White House.
Of course Bush would not comment because he is a coward.
Way to go Edwards ! make these slimeballs accountable for their sordid actions and behavior.
I cannot wait for the debates …
Kerry going to take Bushie boy to the woodshed and Edwards is going to verbally deconstruct Cheney.
This is weird phraseology “Based on registered voters who are certain they will vote, 48.2 percent say they will vote for George W. Bush, 47.3 percent for John Kerry, and 4.1 percent for others or undecided.”
So the screen is self identifying – There 90% of self-identified GOP said they were certain to vote. 80% of self ID’d Dems, and now over 70% of self ID’d Independents.
May I say that I am skeptical all around. All these people certain to vote – pshaw.
The other thing was the surge in Indies (self ID’d) certain to vote – well I think those are O’Reilly Indies, meaning Republicans.
Srry, Ruy, throw it out. Funny looking poll.
More of a bowling ball bounce than a basketball.